Retribution Paladin Proving Ground Endless DPS

endless wave 123 screenshot

hi everyone, hope you all have an enjoyable Christmas last weekend.

i decided to give proving ground endless dps a run on Sunday. i did better in dps as compared to the healer/tank proving ground but i didn't expect to go above wave 100 so smoothly.


CD Planning

the most important thing you need to prepare is to decide when to use your major cooldown. there are only 10 different waves and it keeps repeating itself so we should stick to the same strategy. for example, wave 11 is same as 1, and wave 12 is the same as wave 2, but mobs hp increased by 10%.

every wave is 1 minute long, which is why we can (and should) use our CD so often. i feel it is easier to split up my CD so that i have something to use on almost every wave.

CD combo 1 = Thorasus, the Stone Heart of Draenor + Holy Avenger
CD combo 2 = Light's Hammer + Avenging Wrath

the hardest wave in my opinion (without using CD) is 10 > 5 > 4 > 9

CD combo 1 is stronger so i plan to use this combo for the 2 boss fight, which is wave 5 and wave 10. this also means CD combo 1 can be re-use for wave 3 and wave 8.

CD combo 2 can be use on wave 4 and wave 9. and it will also be available for wave 2 and 6.

the arrangement of CD does not have to be the best setup because the main idea is to form a habit. practise a few times for efficiency and everything will automatically became easier after it gets into your muscle memory. for example, this is my plan:

wave 1 - Light's Hammer
wave 2 - Light's Hammer + Avenging Wrath
wave 3 - Thorasus, the Stone Heart of Draenor + Holy Avenger
wave 4 - Light's Hammer + Avenging Wrath
wave 5 - Thorasus, the Stone Heart of Draenor + Holy Avenger
wave 6 - Light's Hammer + Avenging Wrath
wave 7 - Light's Hammer
wave 8 - Thorasus, the Stone Heart of Draenor + Holy Avenger
wave 9 - Light's Hammer + Avenging Wrath
wave 10 - Thorasus, the Stone Heart of Draenor + Holy Avenger

very important note - make sure you keep to your plan as faithfully as possible. if you forget to use the CD, just forget it and move on, do not try to use it at the wrong time and screw up your own plan later.

by right, we can use the Light's Hammer in every single wave. but you must throw it down a few seconds before the wave actually begun, otherwise it will not be ready for the next wave. however, i would advise you NOT to use Light's Hammer on wave 3, wave 5 and wave 8, because it is critical for wave 4, wave 6 and wave 9.


BiS Gears

i am not sure what is "BiS" for proving grounds but i know it is very similar to CM dungeon.

because:

1) tier set does not work
2) sockets does not work
3) mobs will scale with our item-level accordingly.

however:

1) legendary ring works

since it is similar to CM, i went ahead to equip all my CM gears, which is my haste & mastery set. but i swap 1 of my CM ring into the legendary ring.


Trinkets

just for your info, i am simply using my CM gears, and my CM trinkets are EDH and DC.

although i have a feeling it might be best to use 1 passive and 1 on-use trinket (scabbard or vial) instead. but i didn't really have time to test these choices because it takes 1 hour to reach wave 60 and 2 hours to reach wave 120.

the higher waves (100+) is where things matters but it is too time-consuming to test out these trinkets... imagine 1 hour of proving ground to test 1 trinket!

therefore, i did not plan for trinkets at all. come to think of it, perhaps it doesn't really matters much, since i can go above wave 100 with EDH and DC, it should be good enough, right? lol


Talents / Specs

Pursuit of Justice - most players agree that Long Arm of the Law is better, but i guess it does not matter much.
Fist of Justice - not important either, in fact, i did not use a single stun at all
Unbreakable Spirit - can be quite handy to bubble out of the Amber Globule every 2.5 minutes, but i don't think you will made such mistakes anyways.
Holy Avenger - VERY IMPORTANT. we really need this, especially for the boss fight at wave 5 and wave 10.
Light's Hammer - most of the waves can hit multiple mobs
Final Verdict - FV help increase the range of your DS, useful for wave 4, wave 7 and wave 9.


Special Note

Amber-Weave will often shoot Amber Globule towards you. you must try to lure the Amber Globule to hit another mob. because the mob will get a debuff which increase damage taken by 50% for 6 seconds, which is very helpful for you to kill the mob.

if you are about to finish a particular wave, you can keep 1 mob alive and stop dps. stock up 5 holy power and wait until the last few seconds so that you can enter the next wave with 5 holy power. this is not really necessary but it may help you to get pass a difficult wave that you often fail.


Wave 1: Amber x 3, Varmint x 6

Light's Hammer at the center (before the wave begun)

LH should hit all (6 varmint)

make good use of Amber Globule to kill the (3 amber) one by one


Wave 2: Mystic x 1, Amber x 1, Guardian x 2, Banshee x 1

Light's Hammer + Avenging Wrath before the wave begun

LH should hit 2 targets (1 guardian and 1 amber)

focus and kill the healer (1 mystic) while the first amber globule fly towards you
dps and kill the full health (1 guardian) with the help of the second amber globule
lure the third globule to center, hit the (1 banshee) when it appear

then finish off the remaining  (1 amber and 1 guardian)


Wave 3: Banana x 2, Varmint x 18

this wave has the most number of mobs but it is very easy.

use Thorasus, the Stone Heart of Draenor + Holy Avenger at the beginning, focus on the (2 banana) and cleaving them off

the ring explosion and your cleaving should easily kill the (18 varmint)

Wave 4: Amber x 1, Guardian x 4, Banshee x 1

Light's Hammer + Avenging Wrath before the wave begun

LH should hit 3 targets (2 guardian and 1 amber)

focus and kill a full health (1 guardian) while the first amber globule fly towards you
dps and kill another full health (1 guardian) with the help of the second amber globule
(1 banshee) will appear, run to the center, and kill it with the help of the third amber globule

then finish off the remaining 1 amber and 2 guardian asap


Wave 5: Mystic x 1, Banana x 1, Banshee x 1, Sha x 1

focus on the healer (1 mystic), interrupt a heal, and start to avoid the banana toss, kill the healer

chase after the (1 banana) and kill it

go back to center, wait for (1 banshee) to appear and dps it

then wait for the boss (1 sha) armor buff to disappear, Thorasus, the Stone Heart of Draenor + Holy Avenger to burst it down


Wave 6: Mystic x 2, Varmint x 6

Light's Hammer at the center, before the wave begun

LH should hit 6 targets (6 varmint)

the healers (2 mystic) will try to cast their heal on the varmints. this is the signal for you to take a Berserker buff on the floor, then use Avenging Wrath and focus on (1 mystic), killing it before their next heal is coming

next, you just dps the remaining (1 mystic) normally, interrupt the heal as and when he try to cast

the (6 varmint) should be pretty low health and can be easily killed


Wave 7: Banana x 1, Amber x 2, Guardian x 3

Light's Hammer directly on the (1 banana), before the wave begun. this will help slow down the banana mob, enough for you to dps and kill it before it brings you out of position.

the first and second amber globule come at the same time, it should hit (1 guardian at the center) and (1 amber) himself. when that happen, try to kill the (1 amber) first, and also try to bring down the (1 guardian at the center) as much as you can. if he still lives, make sure you don't waste any more amber globule on him anymore!

for the third amber globule, you should lure it to (1 guardian at the side) and dps it down

for the fourth amber globule, same thing, lure it to another (1 guardian at the side) and dps it down

for the fifth amber globule, lure it to the (1 amber) himself and kill him. at this time, the timer will be ending soon and the (1 guardian at the center) should be dead or almost dead.


Wave 8: Mystic x 1, Slayer x 2, Banshee x 3

focus on the healer (1 mystic), interrupt a heal, and try to dps it down.

the first banshee will appear suddenly, beside the healer, that is the signal for me to Thorasus, the Stone Heart of Draenor + Holy Avenger to burst down both the (1 banshee) and (1 slayer)

another (1 banshee) will appear around the time when my ring explode, hitting both the banshee as well as another (1 slayer)

the final (1 banshee) will appear immediately after that. for this one, we just dps it normally


Wave 9: Banana x 1, Slayer x 2, Guardian x 1, Banshee x 1, Amber x 1

Light's Hammer + Avenging Wrath before the wave begun

LH should hit 2 targets (1 guardian and 1 slayer)

focus and kill the (1 banana) asap so that you can start to make use of amber globule

the first amber globule should help you kill (1 slayer or 1 guardian)

the second amber globule will help you kill another (1 slayer or 1 guardian)

then position yourself at the center because (1 banshee) will appear, and kill it with the help of the third amber globule

then finish off the remaining (1 amber) and (1 slayer or guardian) asap


Wave 10: Boss Sha x 1

this is the hardest wave (if you don't have CD)

of course, this is the easiest and most relax wave since i already prepare the CD for him.

wait for the boss armor buff to disappear, then pop Thorasus, the Stone Heart of Draenor + Holy Avenger to burst it down


World Ranking

well, if you like to give proving ground a try, good luck and have fun with it! i am not sure how updated wowprogress is, but it shows that i am currently world rank 6 retribution paladin in endless dps proving grounds

Warcraftlogs All Star World Ranking

when 6.2.3 first came out, everyone is still trying to figure out how to make full use of our upgraded gears. some boss fights are shorten significantly and because of new timing and new strategy, every guild can produce new dps record, therefore world ranking have become very unstable during the first couple weeks.

it has been one month since then, perhaps everything have become more or less stable now, or not?

anyways as i am writing this, my current standing is at world rank 17.

world number 17 ret pally? i have never expected that i could get up to such a high ranking. could be many reasons:

1) maybe people can't be bothered to log their kills anymore, because they don't care about farming mode?

2) maybe there are many top guilds who have already stop raids before the 6.2.3 valor upgrade, especially if they already got the mythic mount for all their raiders by now.

3) or ret pally players are more focus on doing mechanics correctly instead of meter-padding, probably not, right? lol

4) or HFC have been on-going for far too long and players have switch to other games already

5) or maybe RNG simply favors me at the moment, but of course, i am definitely doing my best as i can too :)

however, i doubt i can go any higher because this is not my focus anyways and my guild is more keen to keep to a "1 night" raiding per week schedule too. that means we probably won't be trying out new strategy and timing at the moment. but the good thing is that we can use the spare time for rated battlegrounds, doing achievements, PVP and mythic progression with alts, etc.

HFC Speed Farming Progression

after getting mythic archimonde and all HFC achievements for everyone, many guilds out there are currently still farming mythic HFC actively, my guild included.

why do we farm mythic HFC? first of all, we like to get mythic archimonde mount, Felsteel Annihilator, for every mythic raiders if possible. our rooster strength is around 26, and we only have 5 mounts now, so we still need another 20 weeks of farming.

secondly, farming can get boring, so we decided to spice things up, cut down healers, doing speed kills, going for higher individual rankings in warcraftlogs, etc. during farming mode, many things changes, fight length is reduced for each boss, sometimes strategy & legendary ring usage is also different. we have also reduce from 3 raid night per week to 1 raid night per week.

you can also think of speed farming as another kind of progression. cutting down healers can be risky, because mistakes will be more fatal, but it is necessary. speed farming is quite fun, however a few wipes is necessary to re-learn new timing and strategy.


Hellfire Assault

there are simply not enough mobs for everyone to dps in this fight. mobs die ridiculously fast and the majority of the time are idle-ing around, doing nothing, and the fight length cannot be reduced, so we can't rank this fight at all.

the only way is to ask half the raiders to afk this week so that the other half can rank.


Iron Reaver

dps is strong enough to down the boss with 0 air phase now. progression for this boss had gone from 2 air phase to 1 air phase to 0 air phase.

the top parses are using 0 heal or 0 tank and they actually reduce iron reaver into a 30-60 seconds fight. that means our 3 charges of AW must be squeeze inside the short fight and we will need to use a cancel macro in order to fully utilized our wings of liberty buff.

this is the cancer macro *ahem, i mean cancel macro

/cancelaura avenging wrath
/cast avenging wrath
/cast seraphim


Kromrok

to get the highest dps for this boss, you want to end the fight swiftly right after the dragging hands aoe, because that is when our dps burst is at the highest. 1st dragging hand came at around 30 seconds after pull, which is too soon for consideration.

we can try planning for the 2nd or 3rd dragging hand, both timing should be great for ranking. but if we use 2 healers, we probably be able to kill the boss by the 2nd dragging hand.


Council

during progression, we always focus on gurtogg as first priority to reduce raid damage and debuff stacks. we can't do that now because gurtogg will die too fast. to rank well on this fight, you will like to have gurtogg Fel Rage on you. it would be ideal if we allow gurtogg to be alive long enough to get 2 fel rage.

anyways, our dps is high enough that we can bring down both jubei and gurtogg together at the same time and killing both of them before the first storm phase come.


Kilrogg

nowadays, raid dps is so high, by the time the first vision team came out, the boss is already dying, or closed to dead.

we have to take turns to rank, 2 dps every week. the only way to rank for this fight, is to have the whole raid stop dps when boss is around 50% hp and wait until the 2 minute mark. when the 2 dps exit the vision room, their superman dps will kill the boss quickly.


Gorefiend

speed kill is the best way to rank on this boss. the kill timing can be lower from 3 soul feast to 2 soul feast to 1 soul feast. for 1 soul feast, it means dps does not need to waste time soaking the souls any more, and focus on boss dps for the entire soul feast duration, which will yield a much higher dps rank.


Iskar

previously, we use legendary ring is avilable for each phantasamal / add phase. now we finish the ground phase fast enough that legendary ring will never be available at the 2nd add phase.

our current strat is not top-tier:

1st add - legendary ring
2nd add - bloodlust
3rd add - legendary ring

the top parses for this boss has a very different strategy. the range continue to dps the boss in air, while the melee take down the adds on ground, and the boss actually went into another add phase while still in the air! my guild probably won't be trying this strategy for now.

1st add - legendary ring, explode on boss in the air


Scorethar

during progression, we always use 2 legendary ring for 2 dominator. for speed kill, there will only be 1 dominator in the whole fight so the best is using the ring on pull and again around 2 min. this should reduce the fight length significantly.

AW1 - ring on pull
AW2 - immediate after AW1
AW3 - after dominator is dead, ES and AW on boss
AW4 - ring at 2 min


Fel Lord Zakuun

ranking depends totally on speed kill too. cut down to 1 or 2 healer and the boss won't even have the chance to enter phase 2. there will only be 1 seed to handle in the whole fight. we don't even need melee to soak the puddles anymore and i don't have to enter the soul cleave phase either. i just simply AW 3 times in a row and the boss is dead. everything became so easy.


Tyrant

during progression, we used to timed the legendary ring strategically during p2. now that everyone is so geared, it doesn't matter anymore, we just simply use the ring on cooldown. this is very good for me too, since i don't have to estimate how much i need to delay my seraphim to sync with the ring.

for dps ranking, i believe the best is to keep all our AW padding for p3

AW1 - p1 ring on pull
AW2 - p2 ring on CD
AW3 - immediate after AW2
AW4 - immediate after AW3
AW5 - ring on CD if boss still alive


Xhul'horac

same as tyrant during progression, we used to delay the legendary ring for the last phase to burn down the boss asap. for better ranking and speed kill, we should use the legendary ring whenever it is up. and also pray that the boss don't choose you for fel surge too often.


Mannoroth

it quite dangerous to speed kill this boss unless we plan ahead in advance. for example, if we transit to a new phase while a doom lord is spawning, it can easily lead to a wipe. so it takes a bit of trial and error to determine whether it can be done before we push through it, sometimes we have to hold dps, which can be quite annoying because i still need to maintain 3 LOV stacks while holding dps.

during progression, i timed my AW around 5 doomlord but now we only have 3 doomlord so i can re-plan my AW usage.

AW1 - ring 1 on mannoroth, explode on 1st doomlord
AW2 - for 2nd doomlord
AW3 - ring 2
AW4 - for 3rd doomlord
AW5 - ring 3

as for ranking, i may consider planning my AW on the imps instead.


Archimonde

last month, we have 2 doomfire, 5 deathcaller, 4 infernal. this month, we have cut down to 1 doomfire, 4 deathcaller, 3 infernal. since we can kill the adds faster now, there will be lesser mechanics that overlap one another, making things much easier to handle.

The Legendary Ring and Seraphim

the legendary ring, is and always will be a very special and unique experience to raiding. i never expect an individual item to be so involved, in the way guild leaders has to decide how to use the ring, as well as the strategy that often come with it.

hats off to blizzard, for they managed to design a ring to have such an important role towards teamwork for all raiders in WOD. of course, there will always be haters to the way it is designed. for myself, i guess i hate and love it at the same time, lol.

Do you hate it?

in my guild, i don't control the ring. and to be frank, it is quite challenging as a retribution paladin because of the way Seraphim work. seraphim has a 30 seconds CD, and each time, it requires us to build up 5 holy-power to use it.  in order to be on time for the legendary ring 2 minute CD, it means we have to execute 4 x seraphim perfectly.

if we screw up our rotation, or forgot to pool 5 holy-power, or ring on-pull, and delay seraphim by 5-7 seconds. it means we have to forgo the next seraphim or we will never be able to sync with the legendary ring for the rest of the fight.

another problem is when the legendary ring is used on a specific moment, based on guild strategy. for example, sometimes the ring is delayed for the boss final phase, let's say fel lord at 30% or xhul'horac at 20%. it is very difficult to judge how long the raid will take to bring the boss down to a specific hp%. this requires a lot of experience and analytical skills on your part to execute seraphim properly.

Do you like it?

the reward is really tremendous.

imagine you are currently doing 10000 dps

avenging wrath increase damage by 20%, excluding Wings of Liberty

strength potion increase damage by ~ around 11%

bloodlust increase haste by 30%

class libram increase damage by 6.37% x 3 stacks

legendary ring increase damage by 44% and another 44%

seraphim increase damage by ~ around 46%

10000 dps x 1.3 bloodlust x 1.11 potion x 1.2 wing x 1.1911 class trinket = 20625 dps

using all your major CD together actually managed to double our dps from 10k to 20k. if we also use the ring...

20625 dps x 1.44 ring x 1.44 explosion = 42768 dps

our dps already increase from 10k dps to 42k dps, because the ring was activated with all the major CD. now if we add seraphim on top of all these multiplier, it will be a great boost.

42768 dps x 1.46 seraphim = 62441 dps !!

you have to understand that each multiplier effects can stack on top of each other, and everything will chain together into a powerful burst.

i have to admit how joyful it is whenever i managed to sync seraphim and the legendary ring together. because it is so rewarding, in terms of dps, and lots of satisfaction due to perfect execution on my part as well. of course, it is also very disheartening when i did not sync it perfectly.

The Initial Pull

different guilds use the ring differently.

if you are the ring controller

if you are, then the best is to use the ring after building 5 holy-power, which is around 7 seconds. your opening will be C > J > E > C > J > ES > RING & AW & Sera > HoW > C > HoW > V

if ring is use immediately on pull

my guild like to use the ring immediately on pull. the best way is to use AW first, and build up 5 holy-power asap and use seraphim. my opening is always C (RING use) > ES (use AW) > HoW > C > HoW > J (use Sera) > HoW > C > HoW > V

1 sec = RING & ES & AW

7 sec = Sera

37 sec = important, do not use Sera here!

60 sec = ES & AW & Sera

90 sec = Sera

120 sec = RING & ES & AW & Sera (all sync up nicely)

Handle FVEDS proc during AW and FV

how to handle FVEDS proc during Avenging Wrath and maintaining 3 stacks of Libram of Vindication? this is a situation you will face very often whenever you use Final Verdict together with our class trinket.

our class trinket only give us a short amount of time, 10 seconds, where we must use a crusader strike to renew the buff duration or the 3 stacks will be gone. normally, 10 seconds is more than enough because crusader strike is 1 of our most used abilities in our dps rotation.

however, things changed when we are using AW (in Sanctified Wrath spec) , because we focus on using Hammer of Wrath as much as possible during this period and it became worse when FVEDS proc, making us unable to refresh the 3 stacks of LOV on time.

FVEDS may screw up your LOV stacks

during AW-SW, our dps rotation = hammer > FVEDS / crusader > hammer > verdict

when i don't have bloodlust, i only have around 16.11% after raid buff.

for example, you are at 2 holy-power now, with 3 LOV stacks, and decided to use AW.

dps rotation = hammer, crusader, hammer, verdict (proc), hammer, FVEDS, hammer, verdict, hammer, crusader (TOO LATE !!!)

look at this table below and you can see that we will be too slow to refresh the LOV stacks if we are using the standard priority dps rotation.

there are 4 different ways which i can think of what we can do to handle FVEDS proc:

choice 1 - stick to our dps priority standard rotation and accept that LOV will reset

choice 2 - replace a hammer with a crusader to refresh the LOV before it expire

choice 3 - don't use the FVEDS and stick to HoW > C > HoW > FV throughout

choice 4 - refresh the LOV and go beyond 5 holy power

choice 5 - get more than 20% haste !! but this is unrealistic at the moment, haha.

so for choice 1 to 4, which is the better choice? let's do the maths

Character Stats

a mythic BiS geared and 2/2 upgraded paladin have around 8500 strength buffed

8500 strength

3% versatility

and the archimonde weapon

3.6 weapon speed

875.83 weapon dps

Ability Damage

we are only interested with the damage of these 4 abilities:-

Hammer of Wrath = 27315.60

Final Verdict = average 38759.90

Crusader Strike = average 12926.43

FVEDS = same damage as final verdict, average 38759.90

LOV 3 stacks = 6.37% x 3 = 19.11%

WOL = wings of liberty, our tier set buff for the initial 10 seconds of AW

if you like to know how i calculate the damage of these abilities, kindly refer to my earlier blog post here: 6.2.3 Ability Damage Formula

Choice 1 - Stick to DPS rotation and LOV reset

ok, so we accept the fact that our normal rotation causes LOV stacks to reset.

let's take a look at 1 FVEDS proc vs 2 FVEDS proc during the wings of liberty.

let's take a look at 1 FVEDS proc vs 2 FVEDS proc after the wings of liberty.

choice 1 result = 955365, 977136, 940595, 967418

Choice 2 - Replace HoW with Crusader Strike

ok for this choice, we are forced to use a crusader strike earlier than we wanted, because we don't want to lose the 3 LOV stacks.

let's take a look at 1 FVEDS proc vs 2 FVEDS proc during the wings of liberty.

let's take a look at 1 FVEDS proc vs 2 FVEDS proc during the wings of liberty.

choice 1 result = 955365, 977136, 940595, 967418

choice 2 result = 996103, 996103, 981333, 981333

Choice 3 - Ignore FVEDS and stick to H>C>H>V rotation

ok, so we decided not to deal with the annoying FVEDS proc and stick to a simple rotation.

choice 1 result = 955365, 977136, 940595, 967418

choice 2 result = 996103, 996103, 981333, 981333

choice 3 result = 928051 throughout

Choice 4 - Refresh LOV and go beyond 5 Holy Power

choice 4 is definitely an interesting choice, let's see how it fares!

1 FVEDS vs 2 FVEDS during the wings of liberty:

1 FVEDS vs 2 FVEDS after the wings of liberty:

all right, we have the answer for all the 4 choices now.

The Best Choice is ...

putting the result together,

choice 1 result = 955365, 977136, 940595, 967418

choice 2 result = 996103, 996103, 981333, 981333

choice 3 result = 928051 throughout

choice 4 result = 979745, 979745, 964976, 964976

seems like choice 2 is the winner. but, if you look carefully, different choices ends with different amount of holy-power.

choice 1 holy power ends at 4, 3, 4, 3
choice 2 holy power ends at 0, 3, 0, 3
choice 3 holy power ends at 5, 5, 5, 5
choice 4 holy power ends at 3, 5, 3, 5

3 holy-power can give us a FV, which is an extra damage average 46167, outside of AW.
so each holy-power can potentially means 15389 damage

choice 1 modified result = 1007044, 1015896, 992275, 1006177
choice 2 modified result = 996103, 1034863, 981333, 1020093
choice 3 modified result = 992651, 992651, 992651, 992651
choice 4 modified result = 1018505, 1044345, 1003736, 1029575

after the consideration of holy-power, it looks like the difference between all 4 choices are actually quite small although the winner is choice 4... haha, have you ever think about going beyond 5 holy power? it used to be frown upon, because it is generally understandable that going above 5 holy power is a waste, and only bad ret pally does that, right?

when i label this as a choice 4 initially, i thought it was just a silly idea. perhaps i am the only one who even think of going beyond 5 holy power, but, as it stands, may be the best solution to the problem of LOV and FV during AW.

Choice 5 - The Unrealistic 20% Haste?

yeah, choice 5 is the most ideal choice, but it won't happen unless you have bloodlust.

choice 2 result = 996103, 996103, 981333, 981333

choice 5 result = 1095048, 1095048, 1043354, 1043354

yup, this means for the duration of bloodlust, we don't have to worry about LOV stacks falling off even when we perform the dps priority rotation and using the FVEDS proc.

Felmouth Frenzy vs 125 Stats Mastery

the most common question is which one is better? the food buff 125 stats vs felmouth fenzy. 125 stats is straight forward but felmouth fenzy is a RRPM (real proc per minute) Fel Lash, when it proc, it shoot a shadow bolt to the enemy im targetting.

icy-vein recommend felmouth for single target bosses, with mechanics that force you to move out of range from boss because RRPM will help to cover up the dps loss from moving, but after 2 weeks of testing, this is what i've observed.


How much does Sleeper Sushi give us?

firstly, we calculate how much does an additional 125 mastery help us. to be precise, it is more than 125, because retribution paladin has Righteous Vengeance, which give us 125 x 1.05 = 131.25 mastery.

131.25 mastery is around 2.53% mastery at level 100
let's say for a mythic geared paladin, you have 80% mastery after raid buff, then eating sleeper sushi will boost it to 82.53% mastery

82.53 ÷ 80 = 1.031625, which is an additional 3.1625% increase damage to our hands of light.

for example,

this is 1 of my Socrethar Log where i am using felmouth food buff.

fel lash total damage is only 204.1k

sleeper sushi could have given me 238k damage. because hand of light damage would be 3.1625% stronger, which is 0.031625 x 7.55m = 238k damage.

socrethar is mostly single-target, so i am surprised sleeper sushi could have given me more dps than felmouth here.


Felmouth is best for which fight? Single-Target?

icy vein recommend the best boss to use felmouth is fel lord zakuun, because it is pure single-target and it has mechanics that force you to move out of range of the boss.

i happen to have a perfect example where i've to enter the soul phase, as well as running out for seed!

let's take a look at this particular Fel Lord Zakuun Log

my fel lash give me 142k damage

sleeper sushi could have given me 0.031625 x 5.88m = 186k damage

isn't this already the perfect example as explained in icy vein, but why does sleeper sushi still give me more in this case?

i'll explain later on


Felmouth is best for which fight? AOE Situation?

ok let's take a look at some AOE situation, for example, this particular Mannoroth Log where my divine storm dps is at the top, which should be pretty bad for felmouth?

fel lash give me a whooping 435k damage !!

sleeper sushi could have given me 0.031625 x 10.95m = 346k damage

let's take a look at another AOE heavy fight, such as Xhul'horac

i have a Xhul'horac Log here

my fel lash give me 228.4k damage

sleeper sushi could have given me 0.031625 x 7.27m = 229k damage

this happen to be a draw!


What are the main factors?

as we can see, felmouth can perform badly on single-target such as Fel Lord and Scorethar. on the other hand, it can also perform well at AOE situation such as Xhul'horac and Mannoroth. so what is happening?

the answer will surprise you,

single-target or AOE is such an insignificant factor that you can basically ignore it.

because the main factor is due to our trinkets and our spec!

and some particular boss fights which i'll explain later.


1) Felmouth is not affected by secondary stats!

from all the logs, i have never seen fel lash crit or multistrike. it is also not affected by mastery and the proc rate does not increase due to higher haste either.

this means that felmouth will under-perform if i am using Seraphim. and likewise if i am using trinket such as Vial of Convulsive Shadows too.

felmouth does not benefit from these secondary stats but sleeper sushi does!


2) Felmouth is not affected by damage multiplier effects!

during my test, i realize that having 3 stacks of LOV does not increase the damage of my fel lash. this is the main reason why felmouth under-perform in single-target situation like fel lord zakuun / scorethar!

felmouth will also be useless on bosses which provide us some damage multiplier. for example, in tyrant velhari, we have a stacking damage buff in phase 3. unfortunately, the fel lash damage remains the same.

this is my Tyrant Velhari Log, zoomed into the phase 3

my fel lash give me 91.1k damage during tyrant phase 3

sleeper sushi could have given me 0.031625 x 7.77m = 246k damage during phase 3

as you can see, multiplier effect is very bad for felmouth frenzy

there are many more bosses in HFC such as:

Fel Rage - hellfire council, gurtogg fel rage
Feast of Souls - gorefiend soul feast
Undying Resolve - 20 stacks in kilrogg vision room
Aura of Malice - tyrant velhari phase 3, stacking buff every 5 seconds

and our class trinket is also one such example:

Libram of Vindication - my mythic LOV will be 6.37% x 3


3) Felmouth is only affected by Strength!

the shadow damage of the Fel Lash is purely based on our main stat, which is strength. it is not based on item-level because when i was equipping my standard HFC gears, with EDH and DC, fel lash damage average around 3.3k.

then i swap my DC into LOV, hoping that it would also apply the damage multiplier from the 3 stacks LOV, but unfortunately no, the fel lash average drop to 3k damage instead, which is even lower despite having a higher item-level, mainly because i lost 576 strength by swapping the DC into LOV.

because felmouth frenzy only make use of our main stat, it does not scale up as fast as our gears.

i remember when we are still at level 700, fel lash damage can be as high as 3% of our total damage at that time. but as we go higher item-level, at 730, it drop to around 1%, and now the valor upgrade is going to drive us above 740, making felmouth frenzy even weaker.


Any boss worth using felmouth?

an easy way to determine is by looking at your hand of light damage. i have observed in most of my logs, hand of light damage is usually very close to 30% of my total damage, irregardless single-target or AOE, it seems to be around 30% anyways. sleeper sushi offer a 3% increase of a 30%, which is very close to a 1% increase overall. if your fel lash can do around 1% of your total damage, it should be worth using.

just to summarized, damage multiplier effects, Seraphim and Libram of Vindication will bring down the value of felmouth. retribution paladin often use seraphim and LOV for single-target bosses such as iron reaver, council, kilrogg, gorefiend, scorethar and tyrant, and felmouth is going to perform badly on all of them.

it may be worth using on bosses when you are using final-verdict, and with trinkets like UH or DC, on bosses such as hellfire assault, iskar, xhul'horac, mannoroth and archimonde. but once you are on farm mode, being able to focus on dps padding instead of target-switching, you will start using LOV on xhul, manny and archi as well, making felmouth weak.

felmouth is strong when you at a lower item-level. but as you go towards the end game, the more geared you are, the more useless felmouth will become. so im a bit regret to consider felmouth so late into the game now, because i could have benefit from it when im still progressing HFC at a lower item-level.

6.2.3 Ability Damage Formula

There are some changes to our formula in 6.2.3

Due to the valor upgrades, our class receive around 8% buff to CS, J, HoW, TV, FV, SoT and Censure. I heard the main reason is because other classes scale better with higher item-level and this buff will help us to be on par with them.

Most of the formula I tested seems to be correct except these 3 skills:

Hammer of Wrath - My testing show accurate result at 240% instead of 259.2%

Hammer of the Righteous - My testing show accurate result at 41% physical instead of 42%. But the holy damage is perfectly fine.

Execution Sentence - My testing show accurate result at 867.60% instead of 914.20%


Character Stats

This is the stats i used during my testing & calculations:

Strength = 7357
Versatility = 3.00%

Weapon Speed = 3.60
Weapon Damage (Lowest) = 2408
Weapon Damage (Highest) = 3613


Additional Notes

If you want to test out the formulas yourself, remember to remove items that have a proc effect such as Spellbound Runic Band of Elemental Power.

I've tested on the Garrison Dummy (Level 102) for hours and the estimated armor physical reduction for the dummy is around 33.3%

Note: 1 Strength = 1 Attack Power = 1 Spell Power

Attack power increases your base DPS by 1 for every 3.5 attack power

Crit = 2 times normal damage. If you are a tauren (racial buff crit by 2%), then Crit = 2.04 times normal damage

Sword of Light is a passive 30% buff that affects most of our abilities when we are wielding a 2-hander weapon


Melee Auto Attack

100% Weapon Damage as Physical Damage
Physical damage takes into consideration of target armor reduction

Formula = ((Attack_Power ÷ 3.5 x Weapon_Speed) + Weapon_Damage) x Versatility x Sword_Of_Light x Armor_Reduction

Lowest = ((7357 ÷ 3.5 x 3.6) + 2408) x 1.03 x 1.3 x 0.667 = 8908.98
Highest = ((7357 ÷ 3.5 x 3.6) + 3613) x 1.03 x 1.3 x 0.667 = 9985.18

After testing, result shows my melee auto attack damage between 8906 to 9968


Crusader Strike

130% Weapon Damage as Physical Damage
2H Weapon Normalization is 3.3
Physical damage take into consideration of target armor reduction

Formula = ((Attack_Power ÷ 3.5 x Weapon_Normalize) + Weapon_Damage) x Versatility x Crusader_Strike_130% x Sword_Of_Light x Armor_Reduction

Lowest = ((7357 ÷ 3.5 x 3.3) + 2408) x 1.03 x 1.3 x 1.3 x 0.667 = 10848.52
Highest = ((7357 ÷ 3.5 x 3.3) + 3613) x 1.03 x 1.3 x 1.3 x 0.667 = 12248.58

After testing, result shows my crusader strike damage between 10848 to 12223


Final Verdict

Tooltip is not updated until another patch.

259.2% Weapon Damage as Holy Damage
2H Weapon Normalization is 3.3
Holy damage ignore armor

Formula = ((Attack_Power ÷ 3.5 x Weapon_Normalize) + Weapon_Damage) x Versatility x Final_Verdict_259.2% x Sword_Of_Light

Lowest = ((7357 ÷ 3.5 x 3.3) + 2408) x 1.03 x 2.592 x 1.3 = 32432.19
Highest = ((7357 ÷ 3.5 x 3.3) + 3613) x 1.03 x 2.592 x 1.3 = 36614.37

After testing, result shows my final verdict damage between 32413 to 36559


Templar Verdict

259.2% Weapon Damage as Physical Damage
2H Weapon Normalization is 3.3
Physical damage takes into consideration of target armor reduction

Formula = ((Attack_Power ÷ 3.5 x Weapon_Normalize) + Weapon_Damage) x Versatility x Templar_Verdict_259.2% x Sword_Of_Light x Armor_Reduction

Lowest = ((7357 ÷ 3.5 x 3.3) + 2408) x 1.03 x 2.592 x 1.3 x 0.667  = 21632.27
Highest = ((7357 ÷ 3.5 x 3.3) + 3613) x 1.03 x 2.592 x 1.3 x 0.667 = 24421.78

After testing, result shows my final verdict damage between 21653 to 24369


Exorcism

168.6% of Spell Power as Holy Damage
Holy damage ignore armor
Abilities that use Spell Power ignore our weapon

Formula = Spell_Power x Versatility x Exorcism_168.6%

Damage = 7357 x 1.03 x 1.686 = 12776.02

After testing, result shows my exorcism damage is 12777


Judgement

62.208% of Spell Power + 75.168% of Attack Power as Holy Damage
Holy damage ignore armor
Judgement% = 62.208% + 75.168% = 137.376%
Abilities that use Spell Power ignore our weapon

Formula = Spell_Power x Versatility x Judgement_137.376% x Sword_Of_Light

Damage = 7357 x 1.03 x 1.37376 x 1.3 = 13532.94

After testing, result shows my judgement damage is 13534


Hammer of Wrath

For some reason, HoW is still at 240% and not 259.2%

240% of Spell Power as Holy Damage
Holy damage ignore armor
Abilities that use Spell Power ignore our weapon

Formula = Spell_Power x Versatility x Hammer_Of_wrath_240% x Sword_Of_Light

Damage = 7357 x 1.03 x 2.4 x 1.3 = 23642.46

After testing, result shows my hammer of wrath damage is 23643


Divine Storm

86% Weapon Damage as Holy Damage
2H Weapon Normalization is 3.3
Holy damage ignore armor
Final Verdict Divine Storm (FVDS) = 86% x 2 = 172%
Empowered FVDS = 172% x 1.5 = 258%

Formula = ((Attack_Power ÷ 3.5 x Weapon_Normalize) + Weapon_Damage) x Versatility x Divine_Storm_258% x Sword_Of_Light

Lowest = ((7357 ÷ 3.5 x 3.3) + 2408) x 1.03 x 2.58 x 1.3 = 32432.19 or 32282.04
Highest = ((7357 ÷ 3.5 x 3.3) + 3613) x 1.03 x 2.58 x 1.3 = 36614.37 or 36444.86

After testing, result shows my Empowered-FVDS damage between 32450 to 36359


Execution Sentence

914.20% of Spell Power as Holy Damage over 10 tick
Holy damage ignore armor
Abilities that use Spell Power ignore our weapon

I have difficulties testing out this ability.
Although the tooltip indicate that it is 914.20%, I got the most accurate result using 867.60% instead of 914.20%

Formula = Spell_Power x Versatility x Execution_Setence_867.60%

Damage = 7357 x 1.03 x 8.676 = 65744.21


Light's Hammer

Arcing Light 86% of Spell Power as Holy Damage every tick
Holy damage ignore armor
Abilities that use Spell Power ignore our weapon

Formula = Spell_Power x Versatility x Arcing_Light_86%

Damage = 7357 x 1.03 x 0.86 = 6516.83

After testing, result shows my arcing light damage is 6517 to 6520


Hammer of the Righteous (Physical)

41% Weapon Damage as Physical Damage
2H Weapon Normalization is 3.3
Physical damage take into consideration of target armor reduction

Formula = ((Attack_Power ÷ 3.5 x Weapon_Normalize) + Weapon_Damage) x Versatility x HOTR_41% x Sword_Of_Light x Armor_Reduction

Lowest = ((7357 ÷ 3.5 x 3.3) + 2408) x 1.03 x 0.41 x 1.3 x 0.667 = 3421.77
Highest = ((7357 ÷ 3.5 x 3.3) + 3613) x 1.03 x 0.41 x 1.3 x 0.667 = 3863.01

After testing, result shows my HOTR physical damage between 3447 to 3822


Hammer of the Righteous (Holy)

24% Weapon Damage as Holy Damage
2H Weapon Normalization is 3.3
Holy damage ignore armor

Formula = ((Attack_Power ÷ 3.5 x Weapon_Normalize) + Weapon_Damage) x Versatility x HOTR_24% x Sword_Of_Light

Lowest = ((7357 ÷ 3.5 x 3.3) + 2408) x 1.03 x 0.24 x 1.3 = 3002.98
Highest = ((7357 ÷ 3.5 x 3.3) + 3613) x 1.03 x 0.24 x 1.3 = 3390.22

After testing, result shows my HOTR holy damage between 3004 to 3389


Seal of Truth

13% Weapon Damage as Holy Damage
Holy damage ignore armor
This ability use weapon speed instead of weapon normalization

Formula = ((Attack_Power ÷ 3.5 x Weapon_Speed) + Weapon_Damage) x Versatility x Seal_Of_Truth_13% x Sword_Of_Light

Lowest = ((7357 ÷ 3.5 x 3.6) + 2408) x 1.03 x 0.13 x 1.3 = 1736.38
Highest = ((7357 ÷ 3.5 x 3.6) + 3613) x 1.03 x 0.13 x 1.3 = 1946.14

After testing, result shows my seal of truth damage between 1736 to 1945


Censure

1 stack = 6.67181% of Spell Power as Holy Damage
5 stack = 33.35905% of Spell Power as Holy Damage
Holy damage ignore armor
Censure ignore our weapon

Formula = Spell_Power x Versatility x Censure_33.35905%

Damage = 7357 x 1.03 x 0.3335905 = 2527.85

After testing, result shows my 5-stack censure damage is 2528


Seal of Righteous

12% Weapon Damage as Holy Damage
2H Weapon Normalization is 3.3
Holy damage ignore armor

Formula = ((Attack_Power ÷ 3.5 x Weapon_Normalization) + Weapon_Damage) x Versatility x Seal_Of_Righteous_12% x Sword_Of_Light

Lowest = ((7357 ÷ 3.5 x 3.3) + 2408) x 1.03 x 0.12 x 1.3 = 1501.49
Highest = ((7357 ÷ 3.5 x 3.3) + 3613) x 1.03 x 0.12 x 1.3 = 1695.11

After testing, result shows my seal of truth damage between 1501 to 1695

Mythic Archimonde Kill - Realm First

yes, we finally kill mythic archimonde. when a demon died inside the twisting nether, he is dead for good! another good news is that we are also realm first :)


Spec: Final Verdict vs Seraphim

i believe Final Verdict is a better choice for progression because there are many high priority targets that need to die asap and we must prepare to use AW immediately once they are spawned.

for example:
during phase 1, doomfire must die in 10 seconds.
during phase 3, infernals must die in 10 seconds.

doomfire spawn every 50 seconds so it's not going to be efficient for seraphim timing.

infernal spawn every 60 seconds but there are many things happening during the last phase. i think it's too challenging to do a perfect seraphim for this phase. besides, 3 to 5 infernals spawn together, and is very good for final verdict to cleave once.


Spec: Hand of Purity vs Unbreakable Spirit vs Clemency

during the first 2 weeks, i was using Hand of Purity because we have to soak 3 doomfires. eventually our dps reach the point where we can clear phase 1 with only 2 doomfires, our healers are capable of soaking the doomfire within themselves.

so i switch to Unbreakable Spirit in order to have more CD for survival. the fight will take around 9-10 minutes for first kill, which means 3 Divine Shield, 2 Lay on Hands, and Divine Protection for every Wrought Chaos and every infernal drop. our damage taken for this boss is always significantly lower than the other raiders.

although the tank also need my Hand of Sacrifice, we have enough external CD which does not need me to spec for clemency.


DPS Priority

phase 1: doomfire > archimonde > cleave deathcaller

doomfire must die in 10 seconds otherwise there will be too much fire to soak. ideally, we want our soakers to take around 12 stacks or less so that our healers won't be so stressed throughout phase 1 and phase 2.

phase 2: deathcaller > overfiend > archimonde

this is the hardest phase, most chaotic, and there are many deathstalkers in phase 2 which i can cleave on them as well.

phase 3: infernals > void stars > source of chaos > archimonde

all the dps priority, especially infernals, has to be killed very quickly here and target switching needs to be fast.

/cleartarget
/tar doom
/stopmacro [nodead, harm]
/tar hellfire
/stopmacro [nodead, harm]
/tar felborne
/stopmacro [nodead, harm]
/tar infernal
/stopmacro [nodead, harm]
/tar source
/stopmacro [nodead, harm]
/tar void
/stopmacro [nodead, harm]
/tar archi

this is my target priority macro. it help save a lot of time to perform target switching throughout the fight.


Hardest Phase 2

i think the hardest part of the fight is during phase 2. it is very important to recognize the sequence of events that is going to happen and always plan ahead where to move.

wrought chaos - look at addon to position myself

shackle - happen after wrought chaos, move out immediately.

deathcaller - legend ring and burst it down or (hand of purity if you are assigned)

wrought chaos - looking at addon to position myself

shackle - happen during wrought chaos, plan ahead which direction to run

deathcaller - focus and cleave off him or (hand of purity if you are assigned)

shackle - all 3 players must break these shackles before the next wrought chaos so everyone has to move out ASAP, in the shortest direction possible!

wrought chaos - immediately after the previous shackle, have to be more careful of positioning because everyone is running back into the boss again.

deathcaller - focus and cleave off him or (hand of purity if you are assigned)

shackle - we do not break this one, instead we push boss into the final phase.


AW Planning

AW planning depends on guild strategy. for my guild, we plan for 2 doom fire in phase 1. priority targets are extremely dangerous for this fight so i need to plan all my Avenging Wrath for them.

1st AW + 1st Ring = when archimonde is pulled, 1st doom fire will die in a few seconds
2nd AW = when 2nd doom fire spawn
3rd AW + 2nd Ring = when our ring is ready and a deathcaller is spawned

then i save up my AW until the last phase...

4th AW + 3rd Ring = 1st set of infernals
5th AW + 4th Ring = 3rd set of infernals
6th AW = 4th set of infernals
7th AW = immediately after 6th AW

by the end of 7th AW, archimonde should be almost dead already.


Trinkets: Empty Drinking Horn & Gronntooth War Horn

i believe when archimonde is on farm, EDH and libram should be the best combo.

but for progression, i am much more comfortable using the heirloom trinket because of all the targets switching. heirloom trinket uptime is as good as unending hunger and in addition, it also came with a 10% buff when hitting demon.

Progressing Mythic Archimonde

this is the beginning of the 3rd week progression and we are coming close to a 100 wipes on mythic archimonde.


Changing Strategy

during the first week, we are planning for 3 doomfires in phase1 because most guild did 3 doomfires for their first kill too. due to our current gears and legend ring, we need to stop dps at 86% hp, then wait for the shadowfel burst, and push below 85% so that archimonde will use 2nd desecrate instead and further delay the 2nd doomfire. we practise this 3 doomfires strategy for the whole week and managed to progress into phase2.

during the second week, we decided to plan for 2 doomfires because we feel that dps have improved after 1 more week of farming, in addition, we also cut 1 healer (down to 3 healers now), and using bloodlust on pull, we wanted to push the boss to phase2 before the 3rd doomfire appear. this new strategy was quite unstable because sometimes we managed to push, and sometimes we fail, making no progress for the week.

(yesterday) during the third week, valor upgrade arrives, we decided to upgrade our legend ring and farm all the LFR raids in highmaul, blackrock, hellfire as a guild. it was boring but bosses die in a few seconds and we managed to clear all the LFR within 1.5 hours. we earn around 1250 valor points so i use it to upgrade my mythic weapon and also my mythic EDH trinket. after that, we extend the raid lockout and try to progress on mythic archimonde again. to our surprise, the valor upgrades help a great deal and we are able to do the 2 doomfires strategy in a much stable way. this give us a lot of opportunity to practise p2.


Sequence of Events

for progression on a very difficult boss with over 100 wipes, i will usually memorise all the sequence of events in my brain. consistency is very important because always doing the same thing in the same way will makes one better at doing it. this means using the same CD at the same time, being in the same position each time, eventually all these will become a part of me. practise makes perfect and when everything is already in my muscle memory, my dps rotation will improve, target switching will be fast, environment awareness will be good, etc.

writing it down can be another way help me remember too.


Phase One

on pull - potions, light hammer, ring, avenging wrath, trinket

doomfire - continue focus on boss, only rogues and hunters switch

deathcaller - continue focus on boss, cleave using FV divine storm

desecration - avoid getting hit but stay close to an orb for the buff

shadowfel burst - this mechanics is only for range, but as melee, when i see these 3 purple swirling circles on the floor, i can mentally prepare myself to avoid getting hit by the next desecration.

desecration - if this happen, we made the dps check for 85%

doomfire - everyone must switch and kill it asap, i'll also use avenging wrath for this doomfire

deathcaller - use light's hammer, refresh orb buff, then push archimonde down to 71%, and kill this deathcaller

doomfire - if this doom fire happens, we fail the 2 doomfire strategy and have to wipe


Phase Two

wrought chaos - minimize movement to achieve good position, and use divine protection if in a bad positioning with low hp

shackle - forget about dps and run out in the shortest direction asap

doomfire soak - run to the hunter i am assigned to and cast hand of purity

deathcaller - ring, avenging wrath, potions, trinket, kill it very fast

wrought chaos & shackle - very deadly combo, divine shield may be needed here, in addition there are also many dreadstalkers running around at this time, while wrought chaos is going on in this very chaotic situation, i must already plan ahead for the direction to run out from shackle by looking at the addon.

doomfire soak - run to the hunter i am assigned to and cast hand of purity

wrought chaos - trying to get back to boss carefully

shackle - this one kill me a few times because i always feel a bit dis-oriented due to running back and fro

doomfire soak - run to the hunter i am assigned to and cast hand of purity

wrought chaos & shackle & doomfire soak - this is a killer combo, and our strategy to avoid this is by pushing archimonde to 40% asap


Phase Three

we only reach p3 a couple times, not enough practise yet

Mythic Mannoroth - Retribution Paladin

yup, we are 12/13M now and this is the 2nd week we down mythic mannoroth.
based on the boss mod statistic, our first kill took us 168 wipes.
surprisingly, the second kill took us only 7 wipes.


Spec: Final Verdict vs Seraphim

Final Verdict is definitely the better choice because for mythic mannoroth, imps continue to spawn throughout the fight. since the imps have to die within a couple GCD, in a way it is very similiar to kromrok dragging hands. for such situation, a FVDS (or FVEDS proc) is the best way to dps.


Spec: Unbreakable Spirit vs Clemency

Unbreakable Spirit is great because everyone will take a lot of damage from this boss. the fight will take around 7-9 minutes, which means 3 Divine Shield, 2 Lay on Hands, and Divine Protection for every imps / Shadowforce. when i can use our defensive CD so often, my damage taken for this boss is always significantly lower than the other raiders.

although the tank also need my Hand of Sacrifice for the Glaive Combo, we have enough external CD to go through it.


DPS Assignment

doom lord > mannoroth and cleave imps

this is the dps priority for the majority of us.

for consistent purpose, our guild prefer to appoint specific classes such as warlocks and warriors to focus AOE on the imps, while the rest of us focus on the doom lord and mannoroth. the main reason is to push the boss to 65% hp before the 4th doom lord, or even better if we push before the 4th set of imps.


Wrath of Gul'dan

Wrath of Gul'dan only happen 2 times in the whole fight because it will happen during phase transitions and there are only 2 phase transitions. and for each phase transition, 5 random players will be selected for wrath. it is always 2 melee-dps, 2 range-dps, 1 healer.

our guild decided that we should only deal with the 1st wrath and it is easier to ignore players who got the 2nd wrath.

for the 1st wrath, the raid leader addon will assign 5 icons on the 5 wrath players. 1 special icon (we use skull) is assigned to a player who will stand alone at the skull marker where both our tanks will then take turns to soak the player's wrath. the other 4 icon players will stand at their own pre-assigned markers forming a square shape. there, we assign 2 mages to take turns and soak up all the wrath of the 4 players by standing in the middle of the square shape formation and using iceblock.

for the 2nd wrath, we decided to ask all the players to stand outside the raid, each on their own. the most dangerous thing in this phase is the Empowered Shadowforce and the whole raid will be cluster at the center lane so that everybody can survive the empowered shadowforce by running against it in a straight line. straight line running is the only way we can survive without falling off the platform. however wrath players who are standing outside the raid means that our pivot direction from the boss will not be a straight line, and we will definitely fall out the platform during empowered shadowforce. as a paladin, we don't have blinks, leap jump, charge, etc but we are still able to survive the first empowered shadowforce using divine shield because there is one pillar remaining in the last phase. this pillar has a very strong electric AOE that can kill us in a few seconds but if we can stay inside the pillar with divine shield, we will be able to survive the first empowered shadowforce without falling off the platform. due to our guild choice of strategy, there is unfortunately no way for me to survive the second shadowforce except to cheat death by stacking up with the rest of the raid, but i'll only consider that if all our healers are alive and the raid looks healthy.

just for example,
during my first kill, i am only 58 percentile because i got the 2nd wrath.
during my second kill, i became 91 percentile because i didn't have the 2nd wrath.


AW Planning

since our role is to focus on doom lord, i decided to plan all my Avenging Wrath around the 5 doom lord.

1st AW + 1st Ring = when mannoroth is pulled
2nd AW = when second doom lord spawn
3rd AW + 2nd Ring = when 3rd imps spawn
4th AW = when fourth doom lord spawn
5th AW + 3rd Ring + Bloodlust + Potion = after clearing the mark from fifth doom lord

6th AW = if i have 2nd wrath, i will use it after the first empowered shadowforce because im probably going to die in the second empowered shadowforce. otherwise, we can save it to be used together with the 4th Ring.

1st Ring is used to dps mannoroth at the beginning and explode on the doom lord shortly after it is spawned.

2nd Ring can be used for dps padding on the 3rd set of imps and then explode on the 3rd doom lord when it is spawned. this explosion should instantly kill the doom lord.

3rd Ring is delayed a little bit, until the mark of doom is cleared and everybody is ready to dps push the boss to the final phase.

4th Ring is probably the end, the boss should be death pretty soon. use it as soon as it is available.


Trinkets: Empty Drinking Horn & Discordant Chorus

i believe the highest dps trinket is EDS + Libram and pray that you never get chosen for mechanics because mark of doom can easily put you out of range and remove the 3 LOV stacks. otherwise, a wrath + shadowforce combo can also push you out of range to maintain 3 LOV stacks.

for personal preference, i prefer to use EDH and DC, understand they may not be the best choice, but it definitely make my life easier, and allow me to focus on the dps targets, dps rotation or reacting to the mechanics correctly.

Edit: in case you were wondering, i did not have unending hunger or heirloom trinket (introduced later in 6.2.3) during our mythic mannoroth progression.

HFC Paladin Raiding Macro

using macro will give a player a slight advantage because you can react faster and with lesser mistake. below are some of the macros i frequently used in HFC.


Hellfire Assault

/cast [@tankname] hand of sacrifice

i usually keep an eye on the tank stacking debuff when the hulking berserker is alive for a long duration. HOS will be needed at 3-5 stacks because that's when tank hp start to dip down fast.

/cleartarget
/tar gorebound terror
/stopmacro [nodead, harm]
/targetenemy

this macro will help me target the nearest gorebound terror. when Gorebound Felcaster is at low health, they transformed into gorebound terror (the highest priority target).

Iron Reaver

/cast [@longlasting] hand of freedom

during the air phase, the boss will splash oil covering a large area. stepping into the oil will slow you down a lot and a hand of freedom macro can be very useful.


Kormrok

/cast [@tankname] hand of sacrifice

tank sometimes take heavy damage during grasping hand. we don't worry about the 1st hand because it is destroyed by the legendary ring. we only need to use HOS for the 2nd and 3rd grasping hand.

/cast [@focus,exists,nodead,harm] [] crusader strike

while changing target to dps the grasping hand, we have to maintain our 3 LOV stacks by doing a focus macro of crusader strike on the boss.

/cast seal of righteousness
/cast seal of truth

this is the best macro for switching between SOR and SOT.

Hellfire Council

/cast seal of righteousness
/cast seal of truth

this is the best macro for switching between SOR and SOT. SOR is good for the beginning when we have 2 targets available. after gurtogg is dead, we can switch to SOT.

/cast [@focus,exists,nodead,harm] [] crusader strike

at the beginning, we can focus macro crusader strike on jubei and attack gurtogg as the main target. when gurtogg is dead, we can continue 3 stacks of LOV on jubei.


Gorefiend

/cast [@longlasting] hand of freedom

there are times when the torture essence come out and AOE slow everyone, hand of freedom is especially important when you are required to deal with Shared Fate or Touch of Doom at the moment.

/cleartarget
/tar gorebound
/stopmacro [nodead, harm]
/tar gorefiend
/stopmacro [nodead, harm]
/targetenemy

this macro will help me target the nearest gorebound construct/essence/spirit, otherwise it will target boss gorefiend himself.


Shadow-Lord Iskar

/cleartarget
/tar corrupted talon
/stopmacro [nodead, harm]
/tar fel raven
/stopmacro [nodead, harm]
/tar shadowfel
/stopmacro [nodead, harm]
/tar shadow-lord

i use a different version for mythic mode but this is the priority kill order for heroic mode. it help save time with a macro to choose the next priority kill target

/click ExtraActionButton1
/targetlasttarget

i prefer to use this macro instead of the iskar assist addon because the addon can easily cause mistakes to happen.

/cast seal of righteousness
/cast seal of truth

best macro for switching between SOR and SOT


Scorethar

/cast [@longlasting] hand of freedom

hand of freedom will be mainly for p1 when the boss use fel charge. it leave behind a line of fire which slow down your walking speed. with a hand of freedom, you can walk over it safely.

/cleartarget
/tar sargerei dominator
/stopmacro [nodead, harm]
/tar soul of socrethar
/stopmacro [nodead, harm]
/targetenemy

help me target the dominator when it spawn, otherwise it will target the boss.

Xhul'horac

/cleartarget
/tar wild pyromaniac
/stopmacro [nodead, harm]
/tar vanguard akkelion
/stopmacro [nodead, harm]
/tar omnus
/stopmacro [nodead, harm]
/tar xhul

it save time having a macro that choose targets for me.

/cast [@tankname] hand of sacrifice

the tank always need to use some CD (whether internal or external) for every Fel Strike


Tyrant Velhari

/tar ancient harbinger
/focus
/targetlasttarget

during p2, melee has to focus dps on the boss and at the same time we also need to interrupt the p2 add. to do this, i use this macro when the p2 add is spawned and it will put the p2 add as my focus target.

/cast [@focus,exists,nodead,harm] [] rebuke

i can go full dps on the boss and use this macro to interrupt the p2 add, which is already my focus target now.

/cast [@tankname] hand of sacrifice

HOS is needed mainly for p3 where tank death is the most common wipe because of the stacking debuff.

/cast seal of righteousness
/cast seal of truth

best macro for switching between SOR and SOT.


Mannoroth

/cast [@tankname] hand of sacrifice

wait for tank to call for HOS when mannoroth is about to do his Glaives Combo

/cleartarget
/tar doom lord
/stopmacro [nodead, harm]
/tar mannoroth

this macro to help me target the doom lord when it is spawned. if there's no doom lord alive, boss mannoroth is selected.


Archimonde

/cleartarget
/tar doomfire spirit
/stopmacro [nodead, harm]
/tar hellfire
/stopmacro [nodead, harm]
/tar felborne
/stopmacro [nodead, harm]
/tar infernal
/stopmacro [nodead, harm]
/tar archimonde

macro the priority kill order to make my life easier.

/cast seal of righteousness
/cast seal of truth

best macro for switching between SOR and SOT.